Life can be a Pain

[Zoe7]

@Owlunar It is very hard for me also to see two people I really care about hurting so much. It is a different feeling than not wanting to have contact with people because it is triggering - it is true, deep-down sorrow for what you are both going through as important people in my life.

I do know from experience how hard a decision that would have been for you - so much history there and the support you have given has been unwavering but I also know there does come a time where it can be too much when it is so 'close to home' for us. I also know that over the next few days (at least) it will have an effect on you -so I am letting you know I get that and will try to be around for you. 

Sending you hugs, support and love...

Zoe 

[Owlunar]

Thanks @Zoe7

You are right - it has been too close to home for me - particularly at this time of year - I just can't go there - and now I see I was right - but I never wanted or planned to hurt anyone

Oh dear - I am glad you will be around - this might not be easy

Dec

[Zoe7]

@Owlunar I also went through something very similar on here and I can tell you I still struggle with how difficult it was and still is. It was one of the most difficult, but necessary, things I have done in a very long time. Knowing that to help yourself you may infact hurt someone else is a true dilemma that takes both courage and strength to face. Take solace in the fact that you have shown that courage and strength for you own well-being and that is very important to do. 

I do know how difficult the last month has been for you - and I am sorry I have not been around more to support you - but I also know you understand that that has needed to be the case for me to look after myself in any way I can.

This might not be easy but I am here with you - you may actually be helping me also along the way! 

[Owlunar]

Thanks @Zoe7

I like that little  - it's computer-speak - well done

You are doing a great job supporting two people you care about - fantastic actually

I do remember something about things going pear-shaped for you a while back - I only saw part of it so I really don't know what it was about but when you reappeared I was really glad - and more glad today

You are right - it does take courage to defend one's own space and boundaries - we realise that people possibly will take it the wrong way - I read my post carefully and there was nothing negative in it - but then - I am also reminded that my son was not reasonable and my having my own boundaries was really hard for him - enough said about him right now - the last month has been tough

I understand that you can't always be here - I have not been around for a couple of days here and there - it adds up and we miss what other people are battling with - but then - there are always a lot of other people around to sort things out - that's a really great thing about this forum - everything is out in the open - everyone is cared for - there are plenty of people and the moderation is fantastic

Really - it is good to know I am helping you - so good - you are a pretty special person yourself - I really don't know much about your story - I may have missed it - but you care a lot about people and you are very articulate as well - even though I think it's you that has trouble speaking at times - from stress

Dec

[Zoe7]

@Owlunar The little  was a mistake but then it kinda fitted so I left it - very freudian really!

You are right - I myself do not 'speak' much. When I do it is usually because I have 'something to say' - not just words for the sake of them. I do not like to 'talk' about myself and find it extremely difficult to articulate how I am feeling or what I am thinking - I do believe this is a result of 'being silenced' for so long and therefore it does not come naturally - infact I see it as burdening others with 'stuff' I should deal with on my own. The other side is a more physical reaction - there are certain words or phrases that I can't hear let alone speak myself - and that has definitely been a barrier all my life in 'talking' about myself!

It is easy to support people I care about Dec - and I do certainly care very much for both of you - and I will say the same to you - let us shoulder some of your pain if that helps you through these tough times - and if you need support - simply ask 

[Owlunar]

Hi again @Zoe7

Just as you find it hard to talk about yourself I find it hard to ask for help - you were silenced and that has reached from the past into your present life - I was not given help when I asked - frequenty - most of the time - and this has followed me and done the same

For me it's easier to speak about the chaos after the fact - wow - this is harder than I thought but why did I not think? That is a different issue - perhaps I have been thinking for weeks - what to say and how to say it

Here's the really hard part - I wrote it further up this thread I think - the last time I saw my son I had to tell him I couldn't help him anymore - he had broken the law and it was past my ability to change anything and  I told him I would see him in three days - but I had a car accident on my way home and I had to ring him and tell him that I couldn't visit when I told him I would and that was the end

So yes - honestly - this was - but it is far in the past now and I have stopped feeling guilty - but it comes back today - and I still think it's right to protect myself. In fact I think we must

This will all settle down - I have no intention of leaving - I find I have the best friends I have ever had here - people are fantastic - and it is a huge forum - I have no idea how large it is

Thanks so much

Dec

[Zoe7]

Oh @Owlunar I also know how hard it is to ask for help - especially when I can't see a way forward. I don't want to burden or bother anyone. I have spent my whole life 'doing it on my own' and to even ask for help from my GP last year was a massive step - if I could have foreseen where I would have ended up I may not have done that and continued to get through each day and push 'everything' aside. i was not happy - infact I had no real emotions as I had learnt over the years to suppress or hide them completely. The internal turmoil was catastrophic for me - and has now lead to where I am now. I think this was inevitable anyway after being so sick. The one thing I do know for certain is that without the support of this forum I definitely would not be alive today - as as hard as that is for me to cope with at the moment - I am still here.

Even though you say you have stopped feeling guilty over the circumstances around the time of the death of your son - inside that never really goes away. I believe we learn to cope a little better with those feelings (not so much me at present) rather than resolving them as they actually form the essence of who we are - and if you black them oout completely them we are infact ;osing a part of ourselves - and these part of ourselves are those that allow us to show empathy and understanding towards others. Our pain is part of what shapes our soul - and in that respect it would be nice to be able to see it as a positive attribute! Easier sai than done though!

I am so glad you have no intention of leaving - you would be very much missed (as you are when you take time out for yourself). The value of the relationships formed here on the forum is that there are many, many crossovers in people's experiences, stories and support networks - it is impossible (as you have said) to keep up with everyone - and not necessary either. In time this situation will move forward but I feel it is very important for you also to be able to express your loss, your grief within the present context - there are 2 people hurting here and both of you have a right to feel and think how you do - and both of you will continue to be supported, cared for and loved along the way.

Zoe

[Owlunar]

That's wonderfully said @Zoe7

I seem to remember when you took that massive step and spoke to your GP - but it could have been someone else - one of the wonderful things about this forum is the variety and the similarity of people's stories - people reaching past what they imagine they could have - the "I can't" turning into the "I did"

It's fantastic reading - and you were sick for a long time - I have read and retain enough of your story to know that - and that you would not have been alive today without this forum - that is such a gentle and such an infinitely suffering place to have been and to write about.Truly

You are right - the circumstances around my son's death have changed me - made me who I am and given me an inner sight into the lives of other people - and this is more so with this forum - knowing my son really was mentally ill and hearing the stories of other people who have been in his situation with suffering in their soul I can only imagine - I would not have come down this path without him - I would not have struggled with life the way I did had I not had him in my life for 16 years - He gave me a tremendous gift - one I was not grateful in receiving at the time - but one I deeply appreciate now

I have never had to deal with SI myself - so when I read about other people it's like opening a door into my son's life - and a different universe. What a strange place to appreciate! Why have I been different? I am not better nor worse than anyone else. Maybe I started fighting my mother at a young age and it takes something deep inside to protect a younger sibling - which I did - but I never thought about it.

So looking around I started to see that people have battles I was told strange things about and it is a world that does require sensitivities - and this is not the first time I have been in a forum that required this - I was a support member in a forum for people with chronic pain - and being a support member was important - but I was also a moderator - and I did not really enjoy that - and now I don't want to be anyone but a Senior Member - on the ground - being one of the many and using what I have been given

You are right about both of us being able to express our grief in this context. I know what it is like to be abandoned but here - there are so many people around here to support us

And tomorrow is another day and all of this will be remembered by those closest to it - but the stories like so many others will pass - 

We all learn - and learning can be difficult at times

Dec

[Zoe7]

It was actually my GP who pointed towards this forum @Owlunar so I had actually spoken to my GP before I came on here. It was at a stage where we were both very discouraged for the help (or lack of it) that was on offer at the time. She was my main source of support (and still is to a large extent) and although she was in contact with me nearly everyday it certainly made all the difference being able to connect with other people here.

I can certainly see how reading other people's stories would allow you some insight into your son's life - nobody wants to be in that place and there have been many, many times that I have wanted to give up - especially over the last 6 months (and this last few weeks in particular). For me, it would not be a spur of the moment thing - it would be planned through carefully - and that is infact what probably keeps me alive because I go into a completely different mindset when I am thinking so carefully about everything. It is like, for a short time, the fog clears and everything is serene - that is also when I know I have a choice. It used to be that I would be in a completely 'different' state where I didn't know exactly what I was doing and that was when I was most unsafe - that doesn't seem to be as prevalent now. I think what I am really trying to say to you is that we do have our own minds and we do make our own choices - and even if there are many. many contributing factors - the choice we make is ultimately ours and no-one is to blame in any way. That does not lessen your grief or your loss but it is not something that you need to continue to shoulder either.

As for the present - continued love and hugs to you @Owlunar This community is a wonderful community to be part of but it is inevitable that there will be issues that arise and people feeling hurt by some things - we can't change that - all we can do is continue to be here for each other - continue to care for each other - and continue to be WHO WE ARE  The rest will work itself out 

[Owlunar]

Hi @Zoe7

Thanks for your sensitive posts earlier in the day - it meant a great deal - 

This evening I have had enough people tag me for me not to worry about who I am here - but you were the first when I felt pretty upset that I had unintentionally hurt someone - but that is over with now and bless you for being there - I feel okay now

I had to turn my computer off because we had a short but violent thunderstorm here - then I went to sleep for a couple of hours and had my afternoon and evening chores - amazing how things change when we have storms and then sleep at the wrong time -

Thanks for trusting me (and everyone else) with so much of your story - it certainly is not a good place to be - but - let's see - you are seeing things more clearly and tell me we all have choices in spite of the contributing factors - it's something I need to remember - my son chose to die and he had been into SA so he did intend to do what he did - I always try to respect that

Other people choose things too - and they have that right - but it depends on whatever it is as to what we do in response - you have given me a lot to think about

I am responding to your hugs and love and know it will all work out - the forum is an amazing place and people care for each other here - I am so glad both of us are here

Dec