**Trigger warning** Stuck in world of sadness and Suicidal Ideation

[Sans911]

@Teej please take back your apology. You were being real, and I appreciated that more than you'll ever know. If we can't be honest, vulnerable and real, how do we ever grow? I loved your post and I will respond in a thoughtful, considerate manner that it deserves. I was just so fkn rocked by my mh case manager's flippant and insensitive remark that I completely lost it. I rarely cry over anything, but I did over that remark because it cut to where it hurt the most. It made me feel so insignificant and small.

[Phoenix_Rising]

@Sans911 I am not in the headspace to respond properly tonight. I want to take time to write the considered response that your post deserves. However, I did just want to tell you that the things you experienced (including the utterly appalling thing your MH worker said to you) are the sorts of things I experienced dozens of times when I first started having muddles around 20 years ago. It breaks my heart to know that the stigma around BPD is still as prevalent as it ever was. Your story is the reason why I will never ever go to a hospital or call an ambulance of my own accord now. Hospitals are not safe places for me. As I've shared before, most of my muddle now is due to trauma I have experienced within the system rather than the stuff that brought me into contact with the system in the first place. Attitudes towards those of us who struggle with chronic suicidal ideation have not changed nearly as much as they either should have or could have in the past twenty years.

Anyway, this is just the post to say I will post some time over the next few days. Depending on what I end up writing, it may not be until Monday because I don't feel as safe in Forum Land over the weekends. But I will respond - I promise.

[Sans911]

@Teej I'm responding to your original post in this thread, and first all I want to say a massive thank you for sharing part of your story with me. It means a great deal. And my heart breaks too as the thought of everything you have gone through, and continue to go through. It's a tough journey sometimes just to get from one day to the next.

Just do you have some background of me so far. I have been diagnosed in the last 2years after a breakdown at work. The chronic SI/SA has been mostly in the last year(it is a trait of my BPD) . The management of my MI has been very haphazard and difficult to navigate, and at times I've had to fight to get the help I needed when it wasn't forthcoming. I am under the support of my local community mh team including a case manager (and co worker who covers on her days off) - they generally check on my every 2-3 days & I have face to face support (not therapy) once a week. I also see a psychiatrist fortnightly who manages my meds & tries to assist me with any pressing stressful issues.

I used to be in the ALIVE suicide prevention program earlier this year, but there's a time limit on that too, so it ended. In times of crisis I can ring my case manager or any of the team, or the duty CNS after hours. Sometimes they ask me to come in and talk it over, or it's done by phone. I also have the helplines. Sometimes they're helpful; sometimes they're not.

I too have the option to turn up at ED, and I have done on some occasions, either for risk management or after I have done something. One of the hospitals has a short stay mh unit in the ED, which I've used a couple of times. I'm reluctant to go there, however, as the one time I presented as a risk, I was made an involuntary patient, and my 3 day stay was extremely distressing. I'm not ashamed to say, I manipulated my way out of there to save my sanity.

Generally, my case manager has been helpful and is genuinely interested in helping me. It's me that doesn't always want to listen. I don't get admitted to my local unit, as it's known that it's more unhelpful than helpful. So my risk containment means I have to pick up meds every 2 days from the hospital pharmacy. And I'm waiting on a public pyschologist, but it could be another month or more on top of the 2minths already I've been waiting.

I now have an extra option of a mh respite house, which I'm heading to tommorow for 3 days; like you to reset myself, isolate if needed, but the staff there are good people if I need to talk. I've been there for the first time a couple of weeks ago, and I didn't mind it.

And everything else in your post I can relate too. You pick you, carry on until the next bump in the road you didn't see coming initially. I make tiny, small plans to carry me through, and I try to make things better or easier. And yes, it's often a daily battle just to survive.

[Owlunar]

Hi @Sans911

Thanks for this really concise post letting us know how hard it is for you to get help - and being honest too in saying that there are times when you just don't want to listen - really hard times for you - and yes - I understand about not wanting to listen sometimes 

I didn't like what a physiotherpist was telling me and althouhg I am doing the exercises I am pretty much continuing my life as it suits me - and I have contradicted my therapists - I guess I will do this because I feel I am pretty sure of what I want in my life now and I hope you can reach this stage of doubtful bliss in your future - we can wish for things - 

Let's see- the management of your MI has been haphazard - not good at all - and you have had to fight to get help - I read this a lot and wonder why this is so often the case - I started to see a therapist after my mother died - (sound effects - that was a long drawn-out sigh) - 10 medicare sessions a year with a forty dollar gap - no wonder I had not bothered with a mental health plan before my mother died - how does anyone on a limited income get by with that much - and even so  10 visits a year is not enough - I wonder why this is the case - but there we are

I think I have heard of ALIVE but strange - you can only be in that programme for a limited time - that seems to wrong to me

So I wish you the best for the time you have at your MH respite house - I think you have found it so before - and let's hope it helps now

Yep - I have been there - we can survive as tough as it is - when a day is finally over and it's just one more day in our private war - I had it bad some years ago and I can tell you life improves with time - but getting past the bad spots on day, one hour, even one minute at a time is hard yards

I've been off sick and I am not trying to catch up on the last few days - I am just jumping in the deep end because after sleeping for days I am not really tired tonight

All the best

Dec

[Teej]

Hi @Sans911, 

ive had a hard time through community mental health too but currently am in an ok situation with them where I feel I'm being heard for the first time. It's been a long hard road to get to this point. I wouldn't be getting the help I am without my therapist going in to bat for me over a year ago. I see a therapist weekly, a psychiatrist monthly and have a care coordinator that I don't have set contact with. She comes into my psych appointments though. Currently I'm doing a few psychosocial programs through community mental health. They are helping lots. 

Thank you for sharing your story too. I think it's the first time since I've been on the forum (nearly two years) that I have connected so closely with someone else's story. It's a really difficult one to say out loud. I know that what bought us to this point is probably very different but alas we are here.

My trauma has definitely been exacerbated by treatment of mh clinicians over the years as well. Last year I had a horrid admission. I wasn't fighting or arguing as I was mostly asleep. I documented it here somewhere. It was a lesson in realising not everyone gets treated as human in our hospital system. 

I find much shame knowing in some ways I have it all. I have four beautiful adult sons who all love and care for me. But I carry the shame of having a mixed personality disorder (dependent, avoidant and borderline) that makes me feel like a burden to my kids. Sometimes I feel that burden intensely. Sometimes my poor emotion regulation gets the better of me. My world changed 6 yrs ago and I've struggled to adapt ever since. However there is a lifetime of undiagnosed stuff too. 

Please tag me anytime you need to talk about this stuff. I'm happy to share. I'm very erratic on the forum right now which is more about how im coping this year more than anything else. Ive been struggling to know how to find my place on the forum lately but I think this is one place I feel right, where sharing these experiences helps someone else. 

I hope respite helps and I'm glad you have that as an option. Wishing you all the best. 

[Former-Member]

@Sans911I hope you got some sleep last night. Hoping you find the mh respite house helpful. I know last time there were some helpful people there. Take care hun 

[outlander]

Ok sorry its taken me abit to come back here.. It is unfortunate that so many of us here have had some sort of experience with suicidal thoughts and/or attempts.

the first thing i want you to know is that your not alone in any of this, while each situation is unique we are all in this together. we are here for you

Thank you for the background information, despite it being as hard as I know it is to share that part of the story it does give a better understanding of where you are at now. 

Your after honest opinions so im trying my best to give you as much honesty as here will allow that wont identify me either. So im sorry if there are a few gaps that dont add up properly but some I do have to leave out and some I havent been brave enough to tell until now.

My story is different to yours in regards to medical intervention and our situations however our thoughts seem to be the same. There have been a few times I have been in hospital. The first one was intervened before it got to the point of trying to end my life. I had made plans, I had what I wanted to do in my head and had planned it but my words slipped up in the gp room and meantioned I had distinct thoughts about suicide and she called an ambulance to take me before I had any chance to do anything, I became extrmemly distressed after that because it went from 'I want to die let me, to omg someone is going to find out!” so my anxiety over took the suicidal thoughts and became increasingly distressed and family demands werent helping me at that point either. Security monitored room by myself only the nurses to and drs to visit and if I even moved nurses were alerted by security. I had 2 calls to security while I was admitted to the hospital because they werent sure about me in the states I was in so wanted 'back up' I suppose and a few times they would just do a walk through at unexpected times. Hospital helped that time, I was there for a week and during that time I went through the motions of how could I do that, shme, guilt, embarrassment and a whole range of emotions but by day 3 I was coming good and I had this zest for life back. I didnt want to die, I wanted to live. That was the point I changed quite abit, and was also the tunring point of the changes today because I had all those realisations about the abuse, my family and what they were doing and a few other things as well.

Ive had 3 other admissions one I admitted myself because I was trialing things to see what might or what might not work as in while driving or at home, another involuntary and the other combined with a freak horse accident but it set off the anxiety and made me very irrational. So I ended up back there.

The thing with my hospital addmissions, no one actually nows what they are for or the real reason im there. The first one I told them that I was here because I felt like SH ing, still dont know that I actually do. The others I could blame on accidents like the freak horse accident, the other respite one I told them that is was for mediction adjsutments. Each of these stays were only either overnight or 2 nights max so it wasnt too bad.

I dont have the option now to go to hospital or a respite centre anymore well I guess if I got unsafe and turned myself in or tried to make another attempt then I would but atm I dont.

Sorry rambling on now so will get back to the point your after. Life after that first admission hasnt been the same for me. Life went on as usual around me, people going to work, expectations of what I do still there and my current situation as you and others know it however I dont feel the same. I feel like ive given up on myself. I use to be so full of hope that I now struggle to see anything beyond the darkness. I would give anything a go just to see the light and in hopes of moving forward would do so but I just dont see it now. I have tried to change a lot and find that hope but I just dont see it.

I struggle to see why I am here as you do, what is my purpose on this earth. Why do I want to be here when everything else around me seems to just not care. There must be some reason im still here I just cant find it. I have to believe there is some sort of hope out there.

you might think the same as myself sometimes in the sense of 'why me, why wont these thoughts leave, what have i done to deserve this, are these thoughts real, are they trying to tell me something' your not alone in that either ok. reach out for that support and help. 

Your after what you do now and im trying to think, I cant tell you what to do and as im not in your situation what might help me probably wont help you but ive been told that finding a purpose, doing what you love to do is a starting point. You love nursing dont you...? what about trying to get back into it, you be able to connect with patients, provide care and essentially be able to feel usefull and helpful to others. You could try a place like recovery or somewhere similar to ease back into things rather than jumping into the ED or elsewhere. Just a thought and no need to take it on board if its out of the question.

im sorry your MH worker wasnt being supportive and while she was trying to make light of the situation when your in the sort of headspace your in your more after compassion and understanding now what she offerred becasue we dont see it that way. we see it as they are right, im a waste of space, im wasting peoples time and energy. I hope your at the respite centre now and getting the help you deserve and need.

sending lots of hugs and love

@Teejdespite the circumstances of here, i really like what you have written. i know we dont really 'know' each other but thank you for sharing a part of you and allowing us to get to know you for who you are and not your mental illness.

[Zoe7]

@Sans911 I have read your initial post here but not any further responses - I don't feel I need to in order to respond to your questions - as my response here is solely my 'story' and my thoughts  - so here goes....

I have attemted suicide 4 times in my life to this point - the first 2 attempts were over 20 years ago and the last 2 have been this year. On all occasions I have not succeeded (obviously or I would not be writing here now!)

The first time I was completely unsuccessful. As a result though I missed a counselling session and my counsellor turned up at my place as she couldn't get me by phone (as I did not have one in my place). I was catatonic by this stage and she managed to get me to her office while she made arrangements to take me to hospital. She stayed with me in emergeny for several hours until she knew I was going to be seen. She of course fully expected me to be admitted but I wasn't. After being there for nearly 7 hours the psychiatrist sent me home. The problem with that was - I had no way of getting home. I did not have my car close (and couldn't drive anyway), I could not think clearly enough to remember people's phone numbers to possibly pick me up (the one I could remember was not able to come ), and I did not have any money to get a taxi. All I could do was sit outside the hospital (in the freezing cold) and think about what I could do to end my life - again! I did get home eventually - as a hospital orderly offered me a lift and I felt I had no other option but accept (I do wish I hadn't accepted that lift!)

The second time I somehow managed to drive to uni and was taken straight to my gp by a fellow student who found me laying under my desk. I spent the day at the clinic being monitored by my gp and the clinic nurses. That fellow student that found me also picked me up from the clinic at the end of the day, took me home, cleaned out anything that I could further harm myself with and stayed with me that night. I basically 'slept' through it all and was told what happened later. I didn't even remember getting in the car and driving to uni! After this I had to check in with my GP everyday for the next couple of weeks to get meds and be monitored. I certainly felt alot of shame for putting people through this and also guilt - mainly because I was still alive.

Both these times I truly wished I had not survived but both times I somehow went on in the days that followed without much more being said. The first time my counsellor was extremely angry that I had not been admitted and did follow it up with the hospital in phone conversations and a letter of complaint. The second time my gp kept me at the clinic as a result of the inadequate care given by the hospital the first time - all this feeds into my fear of hospitals now! (not the only reason but definitely a part of it).

My last 2 attempts have been this year. One back in January - which is documented here  - and one a couple of weeks ago that I have not mentioned on here until now! 

After the first attempt all I hoped for was that I had not failed - I honestly could not see a way forward and more importantly at the time, did not want to. It was the lowest, darkest place I had been in for many, many years. I did not feel that life could (or would) ever get any better, and I did not feel like I had a right to be still breathing - and those feelings still remain everyday! Some days are hard and some are even harder. There seem to be no 'easy' days - just ones I survive. Some people talk about strength and courage to keep going - but I don't see it like that - literally the only thing that stops me making plans and following through with them is the thought that ALL my history would come out if I was not here and that would mean others (i.e. family, colleagues, etc.) would know the things that I have kept secret for so long (apart for some things I have mentioned on here). For me  that is not about shame or guilt - it is about continuing to protect those I have been doing so for so much of my life - any shame or guilt would then be felt by others and as much as I can't live with these thoughts now - even more so I can't end my own suffering knowing that others would in turn suffer.

There are honestly times when I come very close to carrying out plans - or start but do not carry through - again - not because I don't want to but because of the consequences for others. What this thinking does do to me however is place me in a constant nightmare where I know I do not want to continue living but feel I have to solely to protect others. This is no way to live life, no way to exist, and definitely no way to try to overcome the pain. I sometimes wish that I did not have any family (as horrible and as selfish as that is) because then there would be no barrier that stopped me - and has difficult as my family is to deal with - I do not want them feeling even a small amount of the pain I constantly feel - I would not wish this pain on anyone!!!!

The only bright light I have found in all of this is that my 'experiences', my 'failures', my despair - all initially brought me to this forum - and there have been many, many people who have walked a large part of what I have endured over the last year with me on here. The sharing of experiences, the care and compassion of 'complete strangers', and the unwavering support even (especially) when you are at your lowest, darkest place - is something that is distinctly 'lacking' in the real world.

The power of the community here is like a lighthouse shining out on the ocean directing you to safety - it is not an easy journey, and you are constantly being smashed by the gigantic waves, but every single member adds a little light to that beacon and together they share, experience, follow and support you on your own journey - whatever path you take and in whatever time you need to take it! And knowing that you are not alone is often the one little thing that can make all the difference in that moment!

So finally, for you @Sans911 I can say that YES I understand - this is so very hard and such a difficult, torturous place to be in - but like you, I have no answers, and hope to me is a concept that I hold onto more for others than for myself - so I am holding on to hope for you to be able to work your way through this time, knowing that you are not alone and that 'we' are holding you close as we travel this path with you.

Sending you all my love and sitting right beside you - for as long as you need...

Zoe 

[outlander]

@Zoe7 no words just thank you for sharing ❤

[Sans911]

@outlander thanks for sharing your story. It is truly appreciated as I am well aware of how tough things are for you right now. And sharing these stories of dark times in our lives forces us to remember and reflect on them. That's not easy either. And what we leave out or include, and stick within the guidelines.


I'm glad your first hospital stay was helpful and although distressing initially, you came to see the benefits of it. And it seemed like the others were helpful in the short term. Sometimes that's all we need (it's called risk containment) to get us through a bad patch. But I'm a little confused but your statement saying that you can't go back to hospital again. I understand your family is quite controlling and if that is what is stopping you, then I'm very sorry. No one should be prevented from getting help if they need it.

Yes, I often feel such despair most days with my thoughts and why I have to contend with them. It's distressing and often all consuming. Trying to move out if that darkness into a better time and space is a battle that I keep fighting. Or give in to it. Which is obviously what I choose to do. Not just on this occasion last week, but so many other times that I am now loosing count myself. For I have only shared my most recent story.

I believe the answer in surviving and eventually getting better from MI is in finding purpose. Which I try to do. Hence the reason to apply for CG. The reason for getting a pet. The reason for volunteering for various things. But after a short time, those reasons aren't enough. And now I sound selfish and ungrateful. Now I sound like I've had great opportunities & cast them aside. But it's not like that, and I want to explain but I can't. Fear holds me back. Self conscience holds me back.

My nursing career @outlander is a mess. I'm so well known at this one particular hospital that they'll probably never have me back. And that is a huge crushing blow. Yes, they are places I could work but I really liked this place. My level of shame on each presentation there gets deeper each time. So I absolutely no idea what's next for me. But the knowledge that I have sole handedly wrecked my career is destroying much hope I had of a future.

At the moment I just tread water each day; sometimes staying afloat, sometimes going under. I wait, and wait, and wait. Maybe there is something for us to wait for. I want to think that there is; I'm just not sure.